gamesradar.com

DIN0 · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject:

to think some of you actually trusted journalists!
they'd sell their grannies for an exclusive!!!

i've been buying games magazines for around 16 years.
in that time i've read many review scores that i not only disagree with but feel sure that so did the person that awarded the mark. almost always in the game's favour, i probably didn't need to add.
being of an open mind i understand why those things need to happen.
i'm not saying that it is right, i'm not saying that at all.
i imagine that games journo's take some comfort in the knowledge that 'little jimmy' is the ultimate judge of what he likes and he has a ten day return policy at his full disposal....so, no real harm done.

what's of more interest to me is when the proper mags like edge and games tm get it wrong.
pillars of the gaming press, their 'out of tens' are widely taken as gospel.
they are trading off of their intelligent approach and dogmatic integrity.
something which eighthours prides himself on pointing out (rightly so imo) is the way some games seem to be scored to deliberately insight controversy and/or to give one of the magazines a seemingly more honest outlook.
i'm of course referring to games tm consistant low scores of otherwise universally highly rated games.
the thing is, from a certain point of view you can agree with almost any given score.
with the right mindset it wouldn't be hard to see why edge gave mario kart dd a 5. not that i would have. a 7 sounds more on the mark.
the two games that both (arguably) got over-marked by these bastions are:

halo - edge 10/10
metroid prime - games tm 10/10

i am a massive fan of halo, but even i see that 10/10 as being a bit over the top.
from oxm or similar it would have been fine and justifiable. but from edge? it should have been a 9, surely?

i have just started playing metroid prime.
i am slowly falling in love with samus and her pretty cannon, but full set of curves or not, she's no perfect 10 (don't tell her i said that!)

i suppose that the review scores (imo) are only at worse 2 marks away from the truth, and more likely just the 1, but i think it highlights that there is no definitive games bible out there.
they all have their own agendas and their staff are guilty of having opinions.
whilst on the subject of edge i'd like to express my disapproval at their 5 is average mantra.
it isn't. 7 is like everyone elses.

what is far less open for debate is the high driv3r scores.
i have played it and unsurprisingly don't think it's a 9.
turn that digit on it's head and you'd have it nailed.
a 3 does seem a little low for a game that aspires to so much and from what little i've seen, at least pulls some of it off.

i have taken the time to re-read the xboxworld review.
alongside the main review are a couple of 2nd & 3rd opinion boxes from other xbw staffers.
jem roberts seems to have the biggest heart (and a very friendly face!) and points out that the game does suffer some flaws (no mention to bugs, however) and admits that it is a 2nd rate experince when compared to vice-city.
his reviews are surely to be the most regarded by readers of both the mag and forum from now on!
go jem!

xbox world's deputy editor did offer an explanation as to why no bugs were mentioned.
and eighthours, the mag doesn't mention anything about not reviewing from unfinished code, so you're out of luck there my friend!
nick ellis deserves some respect for braving the forum.
he didn't really have much choice, as he joined a few days ago to contribute to a xbox world topic. not coming here would have looked bad, he did the right thing.
i also understand why he has not been back.
he left us saying that he would take the full version of driv3r home and subject it to further scrutiny.
he must have seen that the game still had some glaring flaws.
i wouldn't fancy coming back here much if i were him!
i can practically hear eighthours demanding a full apology and requesting that he publish a new score and sue atari for their lies!!!
he can't do that, wants to keep his job and carry on with his mortgage repayments.
give the guy a break.
he didn't write the review and is not the editor.
deputy-editor is a title given to someone to get them to do things that the editor doesn't want to do.
i.e. dealing with this fine mess!

kkein, you are aware that joao diniz-sanchez is still listed as an edge contributor?
would seem a bit odd, considering the content you said you read in that interview.
not that i know to what extent he contributes or why his name is on the list.
but still, interesting stuff, eh?

my opinion of the gaming press is the same as ever.
take the scores with a pinch of salt and read between the lines.
think of them as more of a game's cv compilation and less an impartial source for reviews!
if it's truth you want, just stick to places like this.
gamesradar, where truth happens in real time. ip of future publishing...

finaly, though this topic was conceived by steve, i think eighthours has done a most excellent job of nurturing one of the best damn threads i've ever had the pleasure to read.
good work man!

anyone seen nellis?
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Gamertag - DIN0

DIN0 · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:48 pm Post subject:

Eighthours · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject:

GwiDan · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:52 pm Post subject:

I've received a reply from the Chief Executive of the Future Network, and while I'm not allowed to post the email, I'll give you the general gist of the content. Basically, Greg Ingham has forwarded my email to the Publishing Director in charge of their games group who will reply next week.

They're taking the situation seriously as they're a company that focuses on readers' needs and has a responsibility to them - which sometimes causes problems with advertisers and has lost them financial support over the years. He understands why reliable reviews are of the utmost importance, and having started his own journalistic career in gaming, realises why this is especially true with video games, which are often sold to children.

Very interesting. This is now at the highest level of the company, so we might get something done instead of empty talk.

Kudos to Greg Ingham, too - he replied to my email thoroughly within a couple of hours, which I appreciate.

KKLEIN · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject:

phAnt0m buRn · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject:

Quoting Din0

I do agree with that. This has to be one of the best topics ever to grace this forum, and for that we should be thankful. Steve and Eighthours especially have kept this topic from going down the off-topic drain.

I also agree that Driv3r is more deserving of a 6 or maybe 7 too.

What I don't understand is how mags like GamesTM and Edge say 5 is an average score, when most games get a 7. Seven would therefore be the average score.

As for nellis, I doubt he'll come back. But I don't blame him. At least he had the decency to come onto Gamesradar and explain. He should be respected for that, whereas the PSM2 folk are cowardly.

When I read reviews I almost always read more than one review. Having read from different sources I can then work out for myself if a game is worth buying.
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phAnt0m buRn · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject:

Egregious Willy · New Member Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 50

Who exactly are you all so concerned about; whose well-being are you trying to protect here? You can't be too worried about being hoodwinked by spurious reviews yourselves - you're far too sophisticated, you're here in a games forum after all and you know what real people, rather than 'easily persuadable' reviewers, think. Personally, I'm not too fussed about protecting those who can't be bothered to get a second opinion (at least, not when all they're required to be saved from is buying a sub-standard game.).

Do we actually know of any one single person who bought the game purely on the basis of one of these reviews and was subsequently desperately disappointed? Anyone…?

Having played Driver 3 for a couple of hours, I'd say the PSM2 review was accurate enough. The score, on the other hand, was maybe a notch or two too generous (which was readily apparent from reading the review anyway). So my only hope from this debacle (if it actually qualifies as one) is that it encourages people to actually read reviews rather than look at a score and then infer everything from a single number.

Bottom line for me: Is the game enjoyable? Yes, definitely. Is it worth 9/10? No, perhaps not. Is there corruption in the magazine world? Yes, same as there is everywhere. Can we do anything to avoid being a victim of it? Absolutely yes; easily.

John Square · Experienced Member Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 376

*looks for the "round of applause" smiley*

*Remembers its on UF*

We'll done GwiDan and the head honchos at Future.

KKLEIN · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:59 pm Post subject:

DIN0 · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject:

phAnt0m buRn · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:03 pm Post subject:

Sprite Machine · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject:

John Square · Experienced Member Joined: 05 Jan 2004 Posts: 376

Sprite Machine · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:08 pm Post subject: