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Driv3r Reviews. Were PSM2 & XBW honest? (Part II)
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Miriam_NGC
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cal wrote:
Miriam_NGC wrote:
In fact, last Christmas a big games company sent very expensive gifts to a lot of the reviewers here, and every single on of them was sent back, in line with company policy about not taking gifts, noy accepting corporate hospitality worth over a certain amount and so on.


Hmmm, except that I know someone who was working as an Assistant Editor on one of Future's Carp fishing magazines and I've seen with my own eyes the small back room at his home stuffed full of goodies he was sent by manufacturers getting reviews, etc, in the magazine. In his own words he 'hasn't bought any new kit for years'. Doesn't sit well with Future's 'company policy', does it? Shocked


Given that we don't HAVE a carp fishing magazine (or indeed any other osrt of fishing magazine), I'd say you're thinking of another company entirely.
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Matthew
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No it isn't lying to their readers, KKlein.

They're NGC, and talking about Mario Kart: DD.
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Miriam_NGC
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KKLEIN wrote:
Miriam_NGC wrote:
But it's not lying to our readers.

Reviewing unfinished code & not telling anyone about it is lying to your readers. Reviewing Driv3r & not mentioning any of the games faults is lying to your readers. XBW & PSM2 lied to its readers, its as simple as that. Future Publishing promised honest buying advice. This wasn't - it was a load of old bollocks.

Read Gamespot. Read IGN. Read Eurogamer. Everything they bring up is not mentioned, in any detail, in those magazines. Why?


I was referring back to the comment about our Mario Kart review, hence the fact that I said we weren't lying to our readers. I can't speak for other magazines, I don't work on them.
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KKLEIN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthew wrote:
No it isn't lying to their readers, KKlein.

They're NGC, and talking about Mario Kart: DD.

I know. Same company though. Same rules apply to everyone, I would imagine.
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Last edited by KKLEIN on Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pug Fugly
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eighthours wrote:
Anyone who says they didn't have loads of fun in multiplayer hasn't got very good mates!


Showing off because you have friends, eh? Granted, it's quite a rarity amongst posers on this board....

Wink

As for reviewing unfinished code - does this kind of thing happen regularly?
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simon71
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that we're getting slightly off topic by discussing the various merits of MK:DD.

Driver 3 is another matter of course.

From the deputy editor of Xbox World's own evidence on this forum, I think it would be fair, at the very least, to lay an accusation of unproffesionalism and naivite at their door.

But perhaps that's all they are guilty of?
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Pell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole MK:DD thing was illustrative purpose by me to show that it's not right to accuse some people of bribery when in other instances high scores are given without anyone complaining. There is a fundamental flaw in your arguements that mean you fail to see the bigger picture. You criticise PSM2 and XBW whilst never even thinking about other instances with different magazines. Why should this be any different?
Also back to the glitching. So many people complain that it is unrealistic. That bouncing off lamposts and wrecking your car is stupid. Okay it can be frustrating. But if Driv3r was going for a realistic apprach then why the heck do you complain? That's far more likely to happen in real life (ie mass damage) than scenery bouncing down the road and you driving away unscathed ala GTA. Whlie we're at it lets all post lists of glitches and faults with GTA and compare shall we? There are LOADS in the Rockstar games, yet they are hailed as some of the greatest games of all time. Maybe they don't interfere with the gameplay as much as Driv3r, but why is it reasonable to expect reviews not to mention this fact about GTA yet you want them to hammer Driv3r for the same thing? The inconsistencies aren't in the reviews, but in your expectations.
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OctogenarianPussy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miriam,

I'd point you to my post on page fifteen. Whether or not you like MKDD is subjective. A lot of people did. Some people didn't. For many varying reasons. None of those reasons were sloppy game-destroying pop up, glitchy flying karts, poorly executed on foot sections (making up a whopping quarter of the game) or bad AI.

Driver3 is an unfinished mess. The fact that it scored a 9 in XBW stinks to high heaven. The fact they reviewed an unfinished game on the promise of it being fixed for release is inexcusable.
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Nintendomadlad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Edge's Review was a one off compared to all the other Reviews i read.

And come on it's Nintendo - Has their game making ever come to question.





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Pell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point may have been misunderstood. I have no problem with anymag. NGC is by far my favourite and I believe it 100%. I wasn't saying that anything was dodgy, but the fact if you accuse PSM2 and XBW of things then why do you not accuse others. That is the point I was making.
Almost every mag at some point boasts exclusive reviews. If these happen to be high scores does this mean money was exchanged? I would say no.
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KKLEIN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pell wrote:
The whole MK:DD thing was illustrative purpose by me to show that it's not right to accuse some people of bribery when in other instances high scores are given without anyone complaining. There is a fundamental flaw in your arguements that mean you fail to see the bigger picture. You criticise PSM2 and XBW whilst never even thinking about other instances with different magazines. Why should this be any different?
Also back to the glitching. So many people complain that it is unrealistic. That bouncing off lamposts and wrecking your car is stupid. Okay it can be frustrating. But if Driv3r was going for a realistic apprach then why the heck do you complain? That's far more likely to happen in real life (ie mass damage) than scenery bouncing down the road and you driving away unscathed ala GTA. Whlie we're at it lets all post lists of glitches and faults with GTA and compare shall we? There are LOADS in the Rockstar games, yet they are hailed as some of the greatest games of all time. Maybe they don't interfere with the gameplay as much as Driv3r, but why is it reasonable to expect reviews not to mention this fact about GTA yet you want them to hammer Driv3r for the same thing? The inconsistencies aren't in the reviews, but in your expectations.

Okay let's do a list:

The Getaway - OPS2
Tomb Raider - OPS2
Enter The Matrix (half finished I might add) - PSM2
Turok - EDGE
Medal of Honor Rising Sun - OPS2
Terminator (Atari again) - OXM

We could be doing this for days, but seeing as this is about Driv3r there's not much point. Hell lets just go all the way & bring up everything, I bet Future couldn't answer half of it.
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Pell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after these discrepencies (in some peoples view) why on earth is everybody suddenly making accusations about Driv3r corruptions? There was nothing like this about any others.
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KKLEIN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pell wrote:
So after these discrepencies (in some peoples view) why on earth is everybody suddenly making accusations about Driv3r corruptions? There was nothing like this about any others.

Well now we do. We have a 17+ page topic about the dishonesty of Future's publications, how's that?
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Pug Fugly
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pell wrote:
So after these discrepencies (in some peoples view) why on earth is everybody suddenly making accusations about Driv3r corruptions? There was nothing like this about any others.


I guess it must be down to the 'bugs'. Technical issues.

I'm quite happy to accept that technical issues can be overlooked if they don't ruin the game. In the case of Driv3r, some people say they do, some say they don't. The opinions I can gather are those of people on forums, who almost always have alterior motives and bias.

I guess if a game is technically perfect it's easy to argue that scores are opinions. However, if it's a dog it's a little more difficult justifying the scores...

I'm looking forward to playing the game myself. Forget about hype and internet hardcore gamer keyboard warriors, and see what it's actually like....
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Poet
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pell wrote:
So after these discrepencies (in some peoples view) why on earth is everybody suddenly making accusations about Driv3r corruptions? There was nothing like this about any others.

Adding £5 onto the RRP of the game compared to the norm and attempting to deceive people into buying it with initial reviews giving high scores, coupled with an absolutely enormous marketing spend on (what many believe is) an unfinished game is not what I would deem to be a good thing.

Aside from the money, there is nothing new here but that doesn't mean it's okay because it's been done before. On the other hand, this is certainly one of the more visible attempts at such behaviour. Adding the £5 onto the RRP (whether or not they're getting away with it at retail is pretty much immaterial - they did their best to do so) is, to my mind, adding serious insult to injury.

A shambles.
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