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richrinjin
Experienced Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 459
Location: Sitting in front of a computer
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 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I did a topic, much repeated, on Edge vs Gamestm and the review of games and the difference in scores. I pick three games that had very different scores and even taking into account personal opinion they should be some consensus on final score. Each game review is given as the magazines and not an individual’s and should be a balanced decision. With both mags seeming to vary so much, I asked the question, which should you trust? I copied the original post to both Edge and Gamestm but only got a reply from Gametm with an interesting P.S.:
| GamesTM wrote: |
Hi Richard - thanks for your .....
Which magazine to trust and ultimately do I continue to buy?
Ahh, yes; that is indeed a rather big question. Unfortunately, I'm not the one to answer that for you as I'm obviously biased - however, what I can do is justify our scores and allow you to make up your own mind.
Mace Griffin was given a score of 4 (read: below average) because it's a game that could have shown promise if it wasn't so flawed. All the game's good ideas are wasted by being underused, the enemy AI is all over the place (giant spiders that can chase you down hallways at lightning speeds, but not climb stairs? Oh please...) and it's just not that fun. Indycar again was a bland and incredibly boring example of how not to do a racing game, with no excitement whatsoever (hence the 2), while Starsky & Hutch was just... well, crap. £40 to hold down one button and press another one repeatedly for hours on end? Er, no thanks.
Also, please be assured that the scores are a team decision - the reviews are written individually and then we all meet to decide on what that review reads as, score wise. This is the only democratic way to decide these things, as everyone has their own take on the scoring agenda.
Hope that irons out any problems you might have with our scores and please continue to enjoy the mag.
Rgds
XXXX
ps If I was to be incredibly cynical about the whole scoring thing, I'd point out that the publisher of Mace Griffin is also the publisher of Half-Life 2 and that a 7, from an EDGE perspective, is rather a high score. Not that I'm saying that EDGE might possibly have bumped the score of a dodgy game up in return for guaranteed coverage of a game that'll sell by the bucketload... no, sir. Although the mags that have slated it (of which I know at least three) have been told they won't be receiving advance copies of the code...  )
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"That's some tough talk coming from a man who wears a basket on his head."
GamesTM - Editorial Team Of The Year. Yes, we're as shocked as you are. |
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Currently: GC: FFCC, BuffyCB Mame: Mr Do!
Next: VJ. Billy Hatcher. RL:RSIII. Metal Arms.
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DIN0
Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 4359
Location: Beside the seaside, beside the sea.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| richrinjin wrote: |
I did a topic, much repeated, on Edge vs Gamestm and the review of games and the difference in scores. I pick three games that had very different scores and even taking into account personal opinion they should be some consensus on final score. Each game review is given as the magazines and not an individual’s and should be a balanced decision. With both mags seeming to vary so much, I asked the question, which should you trust? I copied the original post to both Edge and Gamestm but only got a reply from Gametm with an interesting P.S.:
| GamesTM wrote: |
Hi Richard - thanks for your .....
Which magazine to trust and ultimately do I continue to buy?
Ahh, yes; that is indeed a rather big question. Unfortunately, I'm not the one to answer that for you as I'm obviously biased - however, what I can do is justify our scores and allow you to make up your own mind.
Mace Griffin was given a score of 4 (read: below average) because it's a game that could have shown promise if it wasn't so flawed. All the game's good ideas are wasted by being underused, the enemy AI is all over the place (giant spiders that can chase you down hallways at lightning speeds, but not climb stairs? Oh please...) and it's just not that fun. Indycar again was a bland and incredibly boring example of how not to do a racing game, with no excitement whatsoever (hence the 2), while Starsky & Hutch was just... well, crap. £40 to hold down one button and press another one repeatedly for hours on end? Er, no thanks.
Also, please be assured that the scores are a team decision - the reviews are written individually and then we all meet to decide on what that review reads as, score wise. This is the only democratic way to decide these things, as everyone has their own take on the scoring agenda.
Hope that irons out any problems you might have with our scores and please continue to enjoy the mag.
Rgds
XXXX
ps If I was to be incredibly cynical about the whole scoring thing, I'd point out that the publisher of Mace Griffin is also the publisher of Half-Life 2 and that a 7, from an EDGE perspective, is rather a high score. Not that I'm saying that EDGE might possibly have bumped the score of a dodgy game up in return for guaranteed coverage of a game that'll sell by the bucketload... no, sir. Although the mags that have slated it (of which I know at least three) have been told they won't be receiving advance copies of the code... )
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"That's some tough talk coming from a man who wears a basket on his head."
GamesTM - Editorial Team Of The Year. Yes, we're as shocked as you are. |
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i remember that.
that was with edge's old team (the ones that walked out.)
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banjo_ted
Starting Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I did a topic, much repeated, on Edge vs Gamestm and the review of games and the difference in scores. I pick three games that had very different scores and even taking into account personal opinion they should be some consensus on final score. Each game review is given as the magazines and not an individual’s and should be a balanced decision. With both mags seeming to vary so much, I asked the question, which should you trust? I copied the original post to both Edge and Gamestm but only got a reply from Gametm with an interesting P.S.:
GamesTM wrote:
Hi Richard - thanks for your .....
Which magazine to trust and ultimately do I continue to buy?
Ahh, yes; that is indeed a rather big question. Unfortunately, I'm not the one to answer that for you as I'm obviously biased - however, what I can do is justify our scores and allow you to make up your own mind.
Mace Griffin was given a score of 4 (read: below average) because it's a game that could have shown promise if it wasn't so flawed. All the game's good ideas are wasted by being underused, the enemy AI is all over the place (giant spiders that can chase you down hallways at lightning speeds, but not climb stairs? Oh please...) and it's just not that fun. Indycar again was a bland and incredibly boring example of how not to do a racing game, with no excitement whatsoever (hence the 2), while Starsky & Hutch was just... well, crap. £40 to hold down one button and press another one repeatedly for hours on end? Er, no thanks.
Also, please be assured that the scores are a team decision - the reviews are written individually and then we all meet to decide on what that review reads as, score wise. This is the only democratic way to decide these things, as everyone has their own take on the scoring agenda.
Hope that irons out any problems you might have with our scores and please continue to enjoy the mag.
Rgds
XXXX
ps If I was to be incredibly cynical about the whole scoring thing, I'd point out that the publisher of Mace Griffin is also the publisher of Half-Life 2 and that a 7, from an EDGE perspective, is rather a high score. Not that I'm saying that EDGE might possibly have bumped the score of a dodgy game up in return for guaranteed coverage of a game that'll sell by the bucketload... no, sir. Although the mags that have slated it (of which I know at least three) have been told they won't be receiving advance copies of the code... )
_________________________________________________________
"That's some tough talk coming from a man who wears a basket on his head."
GamesTM - Editorial Team Of The Year. Yes, we're as shocked as you are. |
Thanks for that, richrinjin, that's really interesting.
| Quote: |
I've played it quite a bit tonight now and i'm quite enjoying it, it's certainly not a total mess as some have said, at least, not from what i've played so far.
The on foot bits are as appalling as i expected but the actual driving bits are great fun.
Yes the AI is ropey at times, yes there's very noticeable popup and the graphics on the whole are nothing special but they're decent enough and overall, I'm having fun with it.
The mission mode is shonky due to the on foot bits but the driving games and free drive bits are quality, the directors mode is fantastic (especially with the ability to upload your recordings via xbox live and share them with the world) .
I've yet to see a single bug - I'm also upto the hotel level described above. That level is very frustrating due to the poor aiming.
I think if there was no on foot bits like the first game, i'd give the game a solid 7 or 8 based on what i've played so far (assuming the rest of the game was of the same quality - it's possible the bugs will appear further on) but the on foot bits really spoil it for me so i'd say a 6 is about the right score - mainly cos you can have fun and avoid the on foot bits by playing the other modes.
Overall I guess i'm dissapointed and content at the same time.. dissapointed cos i was really looking forward to the game and it's not as good as the original, mainly due to the on foot bits.
Content, cos i was expecting an unplayable mess after reading all this and so far, for the most part, it's a fairly good, solid game with some flaws and i've yet to see anyo f the bugs mentioned here (though maybe i've been lucky so far).
Gonna be playing it a lot this weekend so will post back any more findings once i've played some more.
I wonder if the post saying some copies have bugs and some don't is accurate as based on what i've read on here i'd have thought i'd have had at least one crop up by now.. the same thing happened with MSR on Dreamcast with some copies having a bug that messes up the kudos calculations - Sega offered replacements to anyone with the problem but for some reason only some copies had the problem.
But back on the main topic, 9 is definately too high a mark - it's a 6 maximum in my opinion, any game this long in development that doesn't even match the original in terms of quality and fun definately doesn't deserve a 9 in my eyes.
I can now see why dodgy_dave is being a bit defensive when people say its an unplayable buggy mess as that doesn't seem to be the case at all.. it's a slightly above average game and if you put up with the on foot bits and then get into the director mode etc.. you'll probably have a fair bit of fun with it. |
I know we're all proud of how worthwhile this thread has been, and the length through which we've been able to sustain it's worth. However, posts like the above demonstrate that it's life may be drawing to a close. We all know the situation. We're all questioning the credibility of said magazines, but at the end of the day there are going to be folk who loathe the game, folk who love the game, and folk who reckon it's flawed but ok. I fall into this last category. Those who hate it are frustrated by the fans of Driv3r, those that love it feel the slating's being dished out are reactions to the scandal as opposed to realistic assessments of the title itself.
There will never be a final answer as to the quality of the game- opinions vary ultimately. The only answers we can continue to search for regard the credibility of the exclusive 9/10 reviews. We all hope that our actions here will yeild results, but we now have to ask how we can make sure this does happen.
So?..... |
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cooldawn
Veteran Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2099
Location: Mordor.....no, really (Moseley)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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After playing this game extensively for the last week I can reveal that:-
1. The Take A Ride mode doesn't do anything for the game.
2. Story mode is still Driv3rs' strongest point.
Basically the single player story is enjoyable and worth the purchase. It help bring back what Driver is all about. Nice.
Reflections should have delayed though. Get rid of some terrible player controls and dreadful bug-out driving bits.
Never-the-less.......enjoyable.
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Credits: TBobMac, The Poisoned Project Forum. |
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concon777
Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I find it crap the way you can almost cheat your way to mission success, when you are chasing a car (the idea is to get in YOUR car and chase the enemy) in STORY, i am tempted to just take out a gun and shoot the enemy in the head before he gets away, if he does, i just restart and do the same again, it's something the Atari should have looked at and made harder.
When a car is chasing ME, i just get out and shoot the enemy once again in the head and he is dead, resulting in no-one chasing me and a simple drive to my goal.
The shoot-enemies bit is rubbish, just carefully hide behind walls and jump out and shoot someone, then jump back in. Its just simple, btw, i did the missions that are made easy by those faults i did the proper way also
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Currently playing: Madden2004, NBA 2003, PES3, Driv3r (it's not that bad!)
Liverpool have to get rid of Owen |
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jeebus
Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 112
Location: Miracle World
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| cooldawn wrote: |
| Never-the-less.......enjoyable. |
I believe you. After all, it's been in development for quite a few years hasn't it? It would be a bloody outrage if it wasn't at least enjoyable.
I still haven't played the game btw.
But just imagine how much more enjoyable it would be if it had been given another 6 months, another year of development time...
I think this is one of the biggest problems in the game industry, the fact that many games get released before they're well and truly finished. All because some greedy publisher has to appease it's shareholders by releasing games in the correct timeframe and whatnot, so that they have a nice upwards pointing graph for that timeperiod... Oh the humanity.
This thread nicely highlights this problem. Lovely. 
Creating games is an art dammit, act like you know. Creating art takes time. And the artists should be able to take as much time as they damn well please.
...
I wish they would hurry up a bit with Duke Nukem Forever though...
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KKLEIN
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 8357
Location: Misery Guts Avenue
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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I went into GAME today, just to look around (like ya do) only to notice 19 (Yes I counted them...) pre-owned copies of Driv3r on both PS2 & Xbox for £26.99. I couldn’t believe it, & seeing as I had a £2.50 voucher with me anyway I decided to buy it on Xbox. For £24.49 you can't really go wrong right?
Anyway for the last 8 hours I've been doing nothing but giving it a good seeing to, on both PS2 & Xbox (my mate came round with the PS2 version so what better way than to test it out than to play it on both eh?  ) First thing I'll get to is the graphics - no offence but when you have the game playing at exactly the same time on one TV (got one of those Argos triple Scart thingies) there's one hell of a difference, now I don't mean to start argument with this but the PS2 version looks absolutely awful. The cars are further away from the screen, the textures are extremely flat, the car frames are jaggied, slow down is evident & thanks to the analogue controls the cars seem to be harder to control than on the Xbox version. Saying that the graphics on both aren't anything to shout home about anyway & the pop up is a total joke whatever, & wherever you're playing throughout. Cars appear out of nowhere & buildings & scenery flicker all over the place.
The first thing I got into was the 'take a ride' mode which, to my surprise, was extremely enjoyable. For a while anyhow. It's great fun flinging the back of the car out round corners, dodging traffic (if you can even call it traffic, there's hardly any cars on the road at all) & watching as your car crumples in a head on collision in all it’s slow motion glory. Brilliant! The novelty soon wears off but it was, and is, certainly enjoyable in short bursts. Given more time with the game I can imagine myself getting much enjoyment out of the 'Film director' mode. So far, to my total amazement very good. Damn good in fact....until you get out of the car that is. And like I noticed when playing it for a short time last week, the game just folds. Totally. Moving the camera in confined spaces is a joke, it's so slow, frustrating & most of all, just a right pain in the arse. Where's the GTA style auto aim? Where's the GTA/ Getaway style automatic camera? Anything, however flawed, would of been better than this. It handles like a wonky version of Hitman. It's fine when not under pressure but otherwise, and even with the auto aim feature turned on, it's utterly hopeless. No wonder the AI is so bad, it needs to be. If the AI of the opposition was any better it'd make the game near impossible to complete. It had to be levelled out somehow & no doubt having wonky AI was the only option, however unintentional.
Sadly the Undercover mode left me feeling empty. It's so boring, mainly because the cut scenes, though fantastic in both sound & look, seem to drastically lack something. I don't know what, or why even, but when watching them you get this feeling of "who cares?". I guess they lack atmosphere, I'm not sure? Unlike both GTA & The Getaway they don't seem to lack any 'punch'. It's hard to explain. They're not right anyway. And thus the whole Undercover mode suffers. If the cut scenes don't inter-join the missions it ends up just feeling like random driving (which I actually wish there was more of) games with a short video in-between.
It's a shame as the driving aspect is just so good. Though the story couldn't of been fixed, or changed if given the extra few months in development I'm sure if the glitches (which I've come across already - one being the 'X' button which, 80% of the time, doesn't work when next to a car, it's like you have to hammer the pad before Tanner responds) & the controls tweaked & even changed, the game could of come together so well. I didn't think I'd be saying this but I am really gutted. If only Atari had given Reflections more time to finish it the way Reflections, I‘m sure, would of wanted it. Bollocks.
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The games that have been eating away at my Disk Drives for the past few days:
PS2 - Not much to be honest.
Xbox - Driv3r. At last. |
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gamecube_god
Starting Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 35
Location: Liverpool
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmm,
It seems 2 me tht all u xbox and PS2 ppl wit ur reality crap ave shot urself's in da foot!!
If only u's had da bottle 2 try a bit of Nintendo magic (Zelda, Metorid, Mario, Super Smash Bros, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, etc)
These r games tht r
A) Fun 2 play,
B) Mainly bug free
C)have decent graphics
etc etc etc
Convert now, and ave a more fun filled computer gaming life.
Ditch these sh*t companies who r milkin a idea (Driver copyin GTA, Max Pain/ Matrix, etc)
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I am the GAMECUBE God!! |
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The Source
Experienced Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| gamecube_god wrote: |
Hmmmm,
It seems 2 me tht all u xbox and PS2 ppl wit ur reality crap ave shot urself's in da foot!!
If only u's had da bottle 2 try a bit of Nintendo magic (Zelda, Metorid, Mario, Super Smash Bros, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, etc)
These r games tht r
A) Fun 2 play,
B) Mainly bug free
C)have decent graphics
etc etc etc
Convert now, and ave a more fun filled computer gaming life.
Ditch these sh*t companies who r milkin a idea (Driver copyin GTA, Max Pain/ Matrix, etc) |
_________________
| M-Vomitorium wrote: |
| The PS2 is shite. Looks Gay,and they do suck, BTW Im 23. U can go bk to w***king over ur PS2 now. |
| M-Vomitorium wrote: |
| This is a valid opinion and not imature. |
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Foolish_Mortal
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 4220
Location: Rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| gamecube_god wrote: |
Hmmmm,
It seems 2 me tht all u xbox and PS2 ppl wit ur reality crap ave shot urself's in da foot!!
If only u's had da bottle 2 try a bit of Nintendo magic (Zelda, Metorid, Mario, Super Smash Bros, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, etc)
These r games tht r
A) Fun 2 play,
B) Mainly bug free
C)have decent graphics
etc etc etc
Convert now, and ave a more fun filled computer gaming life.
Ditch these sh*t companies who r milkin a idea (Driver copyin GTA, Max Pain/ Matrix, etc) |
He said what we were all thinking... only my thoughts are generally better spelled than that.
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simon71
Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 139
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| gamecube_god wrote: |
Hmmmm,
It seems 2 me tht all u xbox and PS2 ppl wit ur reality crap ave shot urself's in da foot!!
If only u's had da bottle 2 try a bit of Nintendo magic (Zelda, Metorid, Mario, Super Smash Bros, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, etc)
These r games tht r
A) Fun 2 play,
B) Mainly bug free
C)have decent graphics
etc etc etc
Convert now, and ave a more fun filled computer gaming life.
Ditch these sh*t companies who r milkin a idea (Driver copyin GTA, Max Pain/ Matrix, etc) |
I think you'll find that many people here (including myself) own a Gamecube as well as an Xbox or Playstation.
So we can have our "reality crap" games and our "furry animals with big eyes and playschool colours" games as well. 
Last edited by simon71 on Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gamecube_god
Starting Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 35
Location: Liverpool
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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fair dus.
Jus lettin da PS2 and Xbox only ppl know!
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I am the GAMECUBE God!! |
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jigger_jay
Experienced Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 391
Location: ***Deathrow*** ----- DEAD MAN WALKING !!!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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SOME INFO WHICH COULD BE REGARDED AS SPOILER OR TIPS SO IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO LOOK PISS OFF NOW !!!
i have been reading this topic till about page 17, just incase spoilers and secrets were revealed.
i promised not to give an opinion of this untill i have played it.
Tbh, i am really 50/50 with this, i like it, but i dont if you get what i mean. ( i have the ps2 version which would explain alot !)
To get this off my chest there is nothing wrong with the cutscenes, i cant get enough of them, bloody brilliant graphics and textures, and its rather entertaining, and that charachter (name slips me) who is played by michelle rodrigues, is looking pretty fine.
well back on topic, i think the in game ps2 graphics are really screwy, and when tanner is on foot, he still runs like a stickman on prozak ! the first few missions, are well written its just i dont see how its all linking together right now,
i am currently at the mission where you gotta put some c4 on the guys yatch i tried it twice and i think i know how to do it now, i think u have to go round the back of those hut places and take out the ppl there and get the c4 the go on a killing spree on the yatch, i know what the explosion is like cos its on the frekking advert on the telly ! only post regarding to this if that info is correct do not correct me, cos i want to try an work it out on my own.
i nticed on the mission where you had to get that car, out of that hotel place, names slip u after a few drinks, that if u make yourself seen to an enemy then run back so you can still see him, he will stop shooting, and you can kill him from tha which is pretty glitch, has anyone else noticed that yet ? it did not work on the bit in the garage actually getting to the car, but to get rid of the car (with the red light on radar) to dissapear, you get out of the car before you exit the garage, w8 for the car to come year you and just shoot them while they are in there car, no police to stop you, and maybe a gang member will chase you on foot, but thats all,
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Playing at the moment...
Driv3r (sigh) - ps2
Pro evo 3 - ps2
Super smash bros melle - NGC
Mario sunshine - NGC |
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The Source
Experienced Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Foolish_Mortal wrote: |
He said what we were all thinking.... |
Speak for yourself.
_________________
| M-Vomitorium wrote: |
| The PS2 is shite. Looks Gay,and they do suck, BTW Im 23. U can go bk to w***king over ur PS2 now. |
| M-Vomitorium wrote: |
| This is a valid opinion and not imature. |
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jamiej
Member
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Get back to the topic...
Check out ebay to see how many cut-price copies of driv3r there are
its almost funny..... 
_________________
Carpe diem-seize the donut.
Currently playing=
Ps2=Final Fantasy X-2/prince of persia
Xbox=Hitman contracts
Gamecube=nothing..awww |
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