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poser1929
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Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 281
Location: England
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 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nellis wrote: |
Further to this, the allegation that there is some grand conspiracy between ourselves and Atari is again wrong.
Because of the long lead times for magazines and the fact that it was an exclusive review, the code we reviewed from was not final. We were made aware of some bugs in the game and were promised that these would be sorted by the time of release. |
First of all, huge respect for coming on here to give us your point of view.
Ok, it's no 'grand conspiracy' but that idea was always a bit over the top. What you have implied though is what I was hinting at earlier - an unwritten convention that they'll bung you an exclusive, you'll give them a higher mark.
You say that you have never been told to do it from on high, or in exchange for a bribe etc. But you have admitted that you 'ignored' the bugs, on the company's word that they would be taken out. Atari would say that, though, wouldn't they?
Ok, it's a less sinister way of doing things, you haven't met them in a car park and exchanged brown paper bags stuffed with cash, but you have still given them a high mark in exchange for an early review.
Serious question:
If a less high-profile game was reviewed and it featured the bugs that you admit your magazine picked up on but ignored in Driv3r, would it have been given a 9/10 rating?
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"But I'm only... [counts on finger] one man!" |
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Stephen
Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 156
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Pug Fugly wrote: |
| the one and only wrote: |
| Pug Fugly wrote: |
| Stephen wrote: |
| Sorry - but anyone giving that particular game a nine ( and possibly parting anyone from their hard-earned cash) is a prick. |
If you don't get banned for this, you're a lucky man. |
Banned for telling the truth. What a feeling that must be. |
Well, I've seen people banned for less around here. After all, the guy didn't have to come on here, and probably won't again if this is the reception he gets (some trumped up hardcore gamer calling him a prick).
Whatever, I'm just grateful we'd have a reply.... saying that though, whatever actually did happen, his reply would read the same anyway. He's hardly likely to come on here and say "Yes, you were all right, they slipped me a crisp £20 note to give it a good mark - it's shite really"... |
Nothing to do with being trumped-up. Just someone who works full time, and has to pay full price for every game that he buys. It's nice to know that some people take issue with the sh*t that's printed in magazines for the sake of an "exclusive". I buy at least six games a month over five platforms- and I like to be semi-aware of what is sh*t and what isn't. I've played games since the mid-seventies (don't know what status that affords me - customer, perhaps) |
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the one and only
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 5656
Location: The Millenium Dome
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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No-one here was born yesterday. No-one here is thick as poo (arguable, I know). No-one here can't sniff out something dodgy.
Granted, insults aren't the way forward, but I've come to trust this forum's general consensus of a title I'm intrested in more that gaming mags.
There are some great gaming mags out there. I always enjoy reading NGC and EDGE, and before handing over my cash I always check the magazine score to see where the game stands in terms of quality.
After reading from page 5-9 of this thread, I feel that my money is under threat.
£40 is money. It's my money. It's my choice to spend it on what I want to buy.
However, with so many games out there, choice can be difficult. Magazines help me make the choice. If magazines are going to start making blatantly awful choices for me though, I feel my money is simply not safe.
It's a sh*t feeling, too.
(Sorry if I'm warbling on)
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Eighthours
Moderator
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6604
Location: Certainty
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Eighthours wrote: |
By the way, anyone remember this?
| psm2, on this very forum on Tuesday June 8 wrote: |
Hello there,
PSM2 here. Respect to all forum men. We love your work.
Some facts:
The Driv3r code was and is finished.
The score was a group descision (as are all our review marks).
We liked it (and the things we didn't like are ripped apart in the review).
Thanks,
PSM2. |
Can we sue?
AND.....the contribution from Mr Ellis makes it clear that Atari told the guys at Xbox World that their review copy wasn't final code.
I'm quite disturbed that someone came on here a couple of weeks ago from PSM2 and told us a blatant lie. |
Bump.
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GwiDan
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 5957
Location: Hiding the corpses...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| KKLEIN wrote: |
| An in-depth preview would of sufficed. Reading your review the reader is lead to believe the game is great, which it's not. The reader is led to believe the game was finished, which it wasn't. The reader was lead to believe the game was near perfect, which it isn't. It's just plain dishonesty. |
After all this fuss has been kicked up, I suspect that an apology for an overhigh review score will be published in the aformentioned magazines. In size 0.5 print at the very bottom of the back cover. It's always the case that people don't stand down or apologize when they're blatantly wrong.
Didn't a lot of the Edge staff resign over "bribery" issues? The official line was "over-commercialism", which you can pretty easily read as "the board being paid off by publishers and we weren't having any of it..." |
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KKLEIN
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Eighthours wrote: |
By the way, anyone remember this?
| psm2, on this very forum on Tuesday June 8 wrote: |
PSM2 here. Respect to all forum men. We love your work.
Some facts:
The Driv3r code was and is finished.
Thanks,
PSM2. |
Can we sue? |
Good memory. Someone is lying to us. Again. See that thing over the wall there? It's a hole.
_________________
That's a disc drive. What's been in them you ask? Well:
PS2 - Smackdown HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r |
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the one and only
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 5656
Location: The Millenium Dome
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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SQUARE 1 
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Behind you, boo!
...oh, wrong box.
Xbox Live gamertag: Extreme Ironing |
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Steve
Moderator
Joined: 08 Jul 2002
Posts: 7344
Location: Hill Valley circa 1955
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well I've uncovered some more info on Atari's dealings with regards to the press and Driv3r. It makes for some bloody shocking reading and my 'source' claims "....for reference, DRIV3R got 9/10 in both Xbox World and PSM2. They were both pre-agreed". Of course this totally goes against what Nick posted on page 8. But who's to be believed?
Anyway, I've got footy after work so I will respond to Nick's post and shed some more light on Atari's PR tactics this evening. Stay tuned folks, you're in for some eye-opening info.
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Cal
Experienced Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of bumps, how come your post count is so high all of a sudden, Eight? Have they given you permission to fiddle about with the Top Secret Mods Controls? Have you been sneaking in a higher post count - say a few hundred per day, hoping no one will notice? I could swear just a few weeks ago you were only at about 2.5k. So how come you're suddenly over 6k? Either you've been a busy boy or you've been economical with the actualité. |
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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available now
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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There are two concepts at stake here - honesty and trust. Having a point of view is perfectly valid and absolutely necessary. Disagreeing with the popular point of view is certainly valid. However missing so many factually accurate flaws is simply unacceptable.
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Eighthours
Moderator
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 6604
Location: Certainty
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve wrote: |
Well I've uncovered some more info on Atari's dealings with regards to the press and Driv3r. It makes for some bloody shocking reading and my 'source' claims "....for reference, DRIV3R got 9/10 in both Xbox World and PSM2. They were both pre-agreed". Of course this totally goes against what Nick posted on page 8. But who's to be believed?
Anyway, I've got footy after work so I will respond to Nick's post and shed some more light on Atari's PR tactics this evening. Stay tuned folks, you're in for some eye-opening info. |
I look forward to reading it Steve, but please be as candid as you can about how who your source is, how he get his info, and any links to corroborating evidence that you can provide. Obviously without actually getting anyone into trouble, of course!!!
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Humiliate John Rodney Bennett
Trash CompDeck
Confront Juliet
But do it quickly....you've only got eight hours to live |
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GwiDan
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 5957
Location: Hiding the corpses...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve wrote: |
Well I've uncovered some more info on Atari's dealings with regards to the press and Driv3r. It makes for some bloody shocking reading and my 'source' claims "....for reference, DRIV3R got 9/10 in both Xbox World and PSM2. They were both pre-agreed". Of course this totally goes against what Nick posted on page 8. But who's to be believed?
Anyway, I've got footy after work so I will respond to Nick's post and shed some more light on Atari's PR tactics this evening. Stay tuned folks, you're in for some eye-opening info. |
No disrespect to Nick, but frankly, anyone can create a well constructed post that dissects every criticism so far while still containing a complete pack of lies. |
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KKLEIN
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 8444
Location: Misery Guts Avenue
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Nellis used to dress up as Harry Potter you know. He was a Judge too you know. Oh yes.
Anyway, Nellis the Elephant has obviously packed his trunk & gone off to the circus as he was on here 5 minutes ago, but quickly left.  He's probably done a runner!
_________________
That's a disc drive. What's been in them you ask? Well:
PS2 - Smackdown HCTP, PSM2 disc 51.
Xbox - Driv3r |
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nellis
Starting Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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The PS2 code was finished, PSM2 were not lying. Sony and MS have different submission deadlines, the PS2 code is always finished first with multi-platform titles. The code we had was a few weeks off - the game in it's entirety was there - cutscenes, sound, whatever - the remaining dev time was for polishing, we were told. As I said in my original post, I will look at the boxed game tonight and post again tomorrow.
I fail to see how the Stephen is qualified to comment on a game that he has NOT EVEN PLAYED. Jeez... |
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OctogenarianPussy
Experienced Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 649
Location: Retard Proof Clothing - Available now
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed.
I'm looking forward to seeing this play out. In the end, people are going to either have to put their hands up and admit they made a mistake (or worse) or our goldfish like brains will make us forget this ever happened
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I came here to chew ass and kick bubblegum. And I'm all out of ass. |
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